Build Scripts

Cornelius

Are there any build scripts available for these boards? Like the ones from Firefly, Armbian or BayLibre? I see in the Libre Computer Project Github the available resources, such as the kernel, overlay, uboot, etc... But no specific script or mechanism to bring it all together. Is there a Github available that has these tools? I'm most interested in building .IMG's for the Tritium and Le Potato. Such as the IMG's you make available.
Thanx!

loverpi

There's no plans to release the image builder because it is a professional services offering. It's not complicated since it is based on debootstrap but there's confidential information.

Cornelius

Well that's a real shame and not very "open" I must say.
Because using a combination of a slightly modified version of the BayLibre script and Armbian, I've been able to successfully build my own IMG's with even more built in wifi dongle support. I was hoping by seeing your scripting, I'd get a better understanding of how certain things worked. Such as growing the File System during boot, adding a swap partition "so forth and so on" without having to manually do it after the fact. Also seeing how this u-boot magic works and if having grub is even worth it, in some use cases.

It's a shame that you can't remove the "confidential information" and still provide a way in which users of the boards "you are selling", can still build and make images for them in a simplified fashion. As a user, i'm not trying to step on the toes of any "professional services offering" and just trying to get the best use out of the board(s) your providing.

Again, Thanx! And I hope at some point you eventually change your mind(s).

loverpi

Our internal builder follows the standard deboostrap process for Ubuntu/Debian so it is using standard affair. It involves multiple manual setup steps and is not as well done as Armbian. It has proprietary customer information which is why it cannot be released. The kernel and u-boot are upstream. Armbian's builder is not only more robust, it is also more flexible than our internal one since we target specific use case (mainline u-boot and mainline Linux).

Cornelius

It has proprietary customer information which is why it cannot be released...? WHAT!!!

Why would the same box/container/cloud/computer used for commerce, also be being used for building .IMG's?

As for the rest, being a standard debootstrap affair and all of the blah blah blah being manual steps, I get it. I'm in the same boat, trying to work this out. Hence, the reason I reached out to you all in the first place. I'm also only interested in mainline Linux and "trying to figure out" this u-boot. It seems the more I read about u-boot, the more I find things not properly explained.

SIDE NOTE:
You provide IMG's for Raspberry Pi's, which as I'm sure you know have a Github and although you might have changed the recipe a bit, you are still using the proprietary bits to pull it all together. Also, if I'm not mistaken your original IMG's for some of these boards were built using the Armbian Builder. I'm just not seeing your lack of transparency here, as a good and open thing. No offense.

Anyway, if my customer information is some how wrapped up inside the build process of the IMG's you make, please remove that information. Cheers! and may the Schwartz be with you.   

loverpi

Why would the same box/container/cloud/computer used for commerce, also be being used for building .IMG's?

What are you talking about? This is not what we said.

As for the rest, being a standard debootstrap affair and all of the blah blah blah being manual steps, I get it. I'm in the same boat, trying to work this out. Hence, the reason I reached out to you all in the first place. I'm also only interested in mainline Linux and "trying to figure out" this u-boot. It seems the more I read about u-boot, the more I find things not properly explained.

See Armbian. They have all of the code to pull together everything into an image.

You provide IMG's for Raspberry Pi's, which as I'm sure you know have a Github and although you might have changed the recipe a bit, you are still using the proprietary bits to pull it all together. Also, if I'm not mistaken your original IMG's for some of these boards were built using the Armbian Builder. I'm just not seeing your lack of transparency here, as a good and open thing. No offense.

We do not use Armbian for building our images. We have a script that does truncates a file, create file system, mounts, debootstrap, dpkg some kernel bits into the image, and dumps a pre-built u-boot into it. It is not designed for public consumption and there's no magic here that is not already in Armbian. Armbian is way better of a reference since the design is more modular and builds from source. Just use Armbian as reference. Our image builder is not for designed for mass consumption and you would waste weeks figuring everything out and maybe get it to work. Armbian is much better suited and open source.

Cornelius

loverpi said: We do not use Armbian for building our images. 

This isn't you? Link

I can dig through the Armbian forum as well, if you like? Anyway, it's besides the point and I think this has all gone off message. I don't have a problem building the .IMG's and I'm currently not using Armbian to do so. I've stated in earlier posts what my interests were and are and it's become absolutely clear that you have ZERO and NO interest in being open about anything. So... Let's just leave this closed and you can go on with what ever it is you call business as usual.
Thanks.

loverpi

The very first ALL-H5-CC images were from Armbian using the Armbian builder. Armbian has ALL-H3-CC as an official target. We do not understand your fixation on a proprietary incomplete solution when better alternatives exist. This is not a question about being open or not. Our solution was not designed from the get-go for end-users since it's basically a manual image assembler where most steps are manual. It takes us two full engineering day to setup all the sources, compile it, and the build images. It would take users weeks just to tinker with it and build non-functioning images. We do not have the bandwidth to support end-users on this tooling which is why it is a professional offering where we provide engineering support and do most of the legwork. Best to move on and not become fixated on this point for no good reason.

loverpi

You can find an old version here: https://github.com/BayLibre/libretech-image-builder
Just take one look at the code and you will see that Armbian is much better in terms of design. The code has improved since then but it's nothing to write home about.

Cornelius

Great! Keep up the good work. Sorry for bothering you... and yea' I already linked that hub at the start of the discussion. Anyway, not to be rude, but it's called the GPL for a reason. It's not about fixation, it's about obligation and I also understand that releasing ones work before it's complete can be embarrassing, but I also know that making it public and following those proper guidelines can lead to helpful and sometimes unexpected solutions. 
Anyway, best wishes and hope all works out.

loverpi

We have not distributed the code under any license so all rights are reserved. GPL does not apply here since there's no GPL code in the builder.

Cornelius

Do me a kindness? Delete my account from this forum. I've seen enough 
I'd do it myself, but for whatever reason it's not a option. Thanx!

loverpi

All the relevant kernel code is already upstream in mainline Linux and u-boot. We have provided all of the relevant information you need and if you cannot go forward based on the information we provided, then you need to go learn the basics by Googling the information we have already provided you. GPL applies to Linux and u-boot and the whole goal is to have all the code upstream so everyone can use. You are requesting access to an incomplete proprietary image builder that you won't be able to use because you don't understand the basics of how Debian works. Why are you so insistent on this point that has no relevance when Armbian already exists?

Cornelius

I'm not really sure why you are shooting insults at me, but ok. I don't understand the basics of Debian now? Maybe I don't understand Ubuntu either? How about Crux? or maybe BSD? For sure definitely not Google! You guys are ridiculous

I've already figured it out. From the Kernel, to the U-boot and all the in-between and even got the Grub thing (my keyboard works) almost completely under wraps. It's just a shame you feel the need to behave like a bunch of greedy truffle pigs and not be more open about your process. Anyway, you all keep staying ahead of that curb  and providing that service you speak of.

By the way, most board manufactures provide the information I was requesting and even have a wiki explaining such things, along with a github. I guess you guys will get there eventually. I guess?

loverpi

We have only stated facts and we did not insult you. We told you to use deboostrap which is the Debian bootstrapping method and just use the upstream Linux and u-boot since Libre Computer spent the better part of three years upstream support for their products through various partners. The whole point is to not have to use a proprietary method to create the necessary bits necessary for an image. If you don't know what the standard way is to build those bits, please refer to Google because those are outside of the scope what we can assist with. Armbian is also another reference with source that automatically builds each bit should you need a reference including using Debian's debootstrap for building the filesystem files.

Please stick to the facts and read our responses carefully as we did not insult you and it is incorrect for you to claim such. Additionally we are not the board manufacturers.

Cornelius

You all have no affiliation what-so-ever with Libre Computer? and yes, I took that as an insult, because it was.
Also, if I wanted to use Armbian, I would be doing so. Armbian is great, but sometimes one needs to build something specific or just doesn't wanna deal with the branding and extra what-not's that people like to put inside the IMG's.

In my use case, Armbian wasn't going to be helpful. The way they build isn't specific to one board, it's very broad and from what I've come to understand U-Boot can be implemented in many different ways.

In the beginning, I wasn't all that interested in Grub, but after figuring out what I needed to and getting everything running, I decided to look into that and see how useful it could be. Using your IMG's it didn't appear it could serve much purpose, because I was never able to get the keyboard to function in Grub. But with a functioning keyboard, I can see USB boot being an option or maybe installing to eMMC and then having another system that could boot from the SD card? Anyway, having a wiki would have sure been nice. Good thing everybody else does. 

loverpi

> I also know that this company is in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM promoting free and open software development.

Libre Computer Project contributed to the following projects and development:
Armbian: >$10K USD
Upstream Amlogic Linux and u-boot: ~$400K USD
Linux and Related Event Sponsorships: $50K USD
Lima Project: ~$10K USD
RetroPie: $1K+ USD
libretro: ~$10K USD
Upstream Allwinner Linux and u-boot Support: ~$10K USD
NetBSD: ~$1K USD
atvX Project: ~$5K USD

Stop making false claims that you can't back up. You are coming off as being an asshole which we are sure is not your intention. Some basic research is warranted on your part.

Cornelius

Obviously you are affiliated with the Libre Computer Project. Seems pretty apparent by the above post. So why claim you are not the manufacturer of said boards? If I go to the Project page, it points me back to you. So what's up with the lack of transparency? I just don't get it.

I've made no false claims. You guys are not open about what you're doing. I just don't think you guys like questions.

Anyway, what you wrote above is completely irrelevant to the discussion within this forum.
And just for the record, I don't think it's me who is coming across as being an asshole. But does it matter? Probably not. 

loverpi

Move the goal post and don't own your claim when refuted. This discussion is worthless because you just have an axe to grind out of boredom.

Reading is apparently beyond you: https://libre.computer/about/

We (LoveRPi) also do not manufacture boards. We do provide distribution and software engineering services.

Cornelius

Own my claim? smh. The boards you sell, you claim can do all these things and have support for things in which they don't have support for. Especially at the time in which I made my purchase(s). It's why people on this forum ask "why post an image if it doesn't work"? I myself have tried to be helpful on that front and have been and done my best where I can. You guys can throw out numbers all you want, it doesn't change anything. There is no goal post, there is no axe to grind and there is nothing to be refuted. Look, you can Fox news spin this shit how ever you want too. The results of your efforts and misdirection speaks for it's self. As do the insults.

If the Libre Computer Project has done all these things you say they have, well... All I can say to that is, fantastic! If it's just more smoke, mirrors and bs like your Amazon descriptions, well... Shit. You got me again! 
I'll be looking forward to this 5.3 LTS you speak of and until then I think this conversation is beyond over.

Thanx!

loverpi

If you have any facts of the contrary to anything we stated, present them. Otherwise bug off, stop spreading false statements, and grind your axe elsewhere.
Closed and banning for violating forum rules: https://forum.loverpi.com/discussion/593/general-guidelines